He has two Dickerson 7613 tapers, from 1952 and 1970, that show dimensions for a butt ferrule that would be 14/64 and a tip ferrule of 13/64. I think you have fallen into the same trap that so many people do and forgot to realize that Stress Curves are only good for the conditions under which they are derived; change the conditions and you have changed the Curve. The varnish is in good condition. 40 0.180 146694 Besides that, he's extremely knowledgeable about Dickerson, is the present owner of the Dickerson rod shop, and has an extreme reverence for Lyle's creations and tapers. As a rule I only make #5 rods (like Marinaro) and the bulk of these are less than 7'6". by softstick 05/09/09 04:36, Post Tom Smithwick. Don't you find short rods a problem on those splendid Yorkshire chalk streams? Point Dimension Casting 20 feet of 5wt line the stress curve is flat. Information About Makers and Manufacturers, Appraisals & Identification of Bamboo Fly Rods. 0.360 (Jay Hake). In the end I don't want to necessarily build a Dickerson 7613. 0.229 60 0.242 the 3pc tapers were appropriated from other makers so it does not always hold true in that case. Some rods might in fact be best with a line weight that falls between two designated ones eg. 0.178 This means that the finished rod will cast like a ONE PIECE SLT rod. I cannot come up with an application for a 7'6''#5, with its inherent disadvantages for roll casting. (four piece) carbon fiber fly rod blank (NOW IN A GLOSSY DARK GREEN) $70.00 9' 6" 5wt. Is there anyone who could help us finding the right data conserning the taper. I figure it will still be a good rod even if the swell won't be apparent to the eyes. All through this process you must be aware of the stress curves as well, you don't want to make changes that will cause a rod to fail. Somehow the "D" was either left off by me in the original posting or was lost in translation to David's site. 0.266 Its a very useful exercise. If you are looking for a Dickerson rod or have one that you would like to sell please contact us. Both tapers conform to the shape broadly called parabolic and thus will have the shortcomings that all rods of this misconceived taper share. 2023 Spinoza Rod Company. (Reed Guice). Digger Digere. Regarding the similarities and differences between the 7'6" and 8' Dickerson's. Straight tapers are just that, nobody needs to develop them, as if they did they wouldn't be straight anymore. As Stephen points out if you can cast the rods then graph them out you really start to understand how it all comes together. 0.369 While I have never cast an original (I think only a few were ever made by Mr. Dickerson) I have made a 4-5. ever wonder why all those 10 1/2/64 Heddons broke at the female ferrule? Typically it is a heavy tip section combined with a light butt section. (Tim Pembroke), I wasn't aware of that but now that I've been told it does make perfect sense. As good a seven and a half foot 3-piece rod taper as any ever designed. (Robin Haywood), Is 8'4" a bit long for a 4 wt.? (Chris Obuchowski). 0.168 to use it on trout other than the Yough, Savage River reservoir and some lakes. Lyle Dickerson's famed taper. Removing material in the center creates a hinge aiding in roll casting ability (thank you Harry for that bit of information). 0.078 (Robin Haywood), I consider a 7 1/2-ft. 5wt. I think we can say that adding more material to a tip section would produce more power and reducing material on the tip section will increase accuracy and delicacy of fly presentation. I would suggest you should RESPECT the man (as well as EC Powell and others) who made contributions to providing us all with tools to understand and continue to develop taper design (Hexrod being one, a powerful and easily applied tool, I believe based on Garrison's math). About a week ago I was fishing the hex hatch on a certain small Wisconsin stream for the first time in many years, with a 7.5 ft 5wt, and actually wished I had a much shorter rod, given the overhanging trees. Parabolic is a marketing term and thus entirely meaningless in discussions on rod design. (Greg Reeves), This version appears to me to take a step into account. As this was my favorite rod, much foul language followed. Is that the 1949 or the 1951 version? 0.174 At The Airport. This is merely about applying engineering principles to designing a rod for a particular application. . Only lost 1/2 inch in rod length. I can always build another and I'm sure I will. I look forward to continuing it, However I am off to spend a week over on the Henry's Fork. The 3 flats got averaged and put into a column in the center of the page. We are typically roll casting about five yards of line at very small fish, so all things can be subjugate to that. Suggest that you subtract .006 for varnish. Actually, your second post said what I was going to say, look at the graphs. The trouble is, really, that I know there are people out there who really do understand taper design, it's getting them to talk to us about it thats the problem. I have thougt of the 8013, as a 5 weight. If you 'hide' columns you can then compare and easily see differences in any combination of selected rod tapers. Worked well enough for me to pass the test. Perhaps it's a European thing to like fast action rods ? I search on Google and didn't come up with anything. (Inches) (Inches) Stress Maybe it is the version of the taper they are making, there are several out there. As we all know, rods can often cast line weights one up and down from their designated ones. Measure over original varnish. Or, if these are not good tapers for this, any suggestions as to which tapers would be? You could have chosen Tom Fulk's true arc taper as the norm and try to describe the deviations from that. 35 .207 .086 $239.00 + $24.95 shipping (2) Vintage HEDDON PAL Casting Rods - #6277 Wormer 5'6"+ #6273 Musky Special 5' . Bamboo fly rod Dickerson 7012 taper 7ft 4wt 2/2. 25 .160 .308 This system could also be very helpful to understand why a classic taper feels the way it feels. I have fished some pretty big water with this rod and it has served me very well. This board is for discussing the collecting of bamboo fly rods, both classic and modern. 7613: 7'6" 2/2 5 wt. I noticed a couple of versions of this taper where the swell was moved out in front of the grip but all of the original 1970 versions show it differently. 25 .156 .310 Please allow up to 120 days for completion of your new rod. 75 0.279 126179 by alpom 05/08/09 03:35, Post I think I can reply for Dennis, as I was one of the guys who measured those rods. The guy turns out to be a top casting instructor. If you were to design rods using a visual representation of it's deflection then deviation from a straight line doesn't matter. . Nowadays, some guys machine ferrules out of bar stock, and they have a reasonable way to make the openings different sizes on the top and bottom. The stepdown in the female is from a 14/64 ID where the ferrule goes over the bamboo to 12/64 ID where it accepts the male slide. We all have devices to try to self describe tapers. Leonard patent, I believe. The point is this: a straight taper only leads to a flat stress curve, as you say, UNDER THE RIGHT CONDITIONS. Rods also tend to have varying sweet spots in terms of when the amount of line out feel just right. At location 45, the taper shows the numbers 208/213. It looked fairly thin. June - October I understand your point, but you can see it is an arbitrary line in the sand. I would highly recommend the 8013 for your first Dickerson rod. (Robin Haywood). Common sense tells me to leave the middle of the taper . By going a ferrule size larger, you do not have to cut into the power fibers as far on the butt end. You can draw a straight line between the tip and the butt of any taper. But more relevant and to the point, I bought a single tip Dickerson 7613 from John and he recently provided me with a second tip from pre-embargo cane and original Dickerson hardware, and the action is a dead ringer for the original Dickerson 7613. Neither of the Powell's on Hexrod are straight taper, I have no Winston tapers handy. In fact, I had great trouble casting the bloody thing. Varnish of 0.004 subtracted. I made the Dickerson 7613 from the numbers in Jack Howells book. The last 7613 is a version by Todd Talsma, it is the strongest one a 6/7 wt similar to the 1952 model. All of which indicates to me that there is not one 'correct' straight line taper. by SpringCreek 06/12/16 10:45, Post Even then I wince about their roll casting deficiencies. They tend to be slightly faster action than the classic designs on which they were based. The 8014 taper was devised later in Lyle's life and reflects both this ma As a general rule, a 12/64 gives you a four weight, a 13/64 a five, 14 or 15 a six. Regarding Chris Bogart's Dickerson. These get assimilated quite directly into stress curve approach. 0.206 The part of the ferrule that fits over the bamboo on the tip section (male ferrule) had the same exact inside diameter of .221" INITIALLY! DICKERSON 8013 RBS Special - 8' 2/2 - 5wt- honey colored - the legendary 8013 Special is an impressive and powerful med/fast action all-round trout -- taper miked from a Ray Bergman original shop rod. Whether you're picking out your very first fly-fishing rod or coming in for a new modern fly reel after years out on the water, Sportsman's Warehouse can supply you with the very best fly-fishing equipment. There are some differences between their tapers and line sizes, however they are all somewhat medium fast. Howell says "they are just different" in his book, but I am looking for something bit more specific. Thanks for the feedback, very helpful. In reading my post the tone seems a little harsh. The butt dimension at the ferrule is too large to fit in a 13/64. 0.153 I will add my 2 cents. by avyoung 06/16/16 18:33, Post It could very well be that you could order just as fast a Payne. I just posted on the Rod Builders forum a 861711D Dickerson taper taken from a rod built in 1938 and restored by RW Summers in 2005. As long as a maker includes the correct ferrule drop, Dickerson tapers are no more difficult to make than most others. (If memory serves me right Tony Young sells step down ferrules for Dickerson rods, so you may try that. .278@25 It didn't make since to me but went ahead and planed the butt section the way it was listed. (Will McMurrey), A picture says a thousand words. 35 0.162 166451 This rod consists of medium tempered cane constructed in a 3x3 node pattern with Dickerson tan wraps and black tipping. Since the time he was with the Deschutes Rod Co. in Seattle he has built rods with Dickerson tapers. An 8014, would be an 8' two piece, with a size 14 ferrule amidships. 0.168 I believe he told me he placed his roll casting hinge 10"-15" above the handle, depending on rod length. All rights reserved. 55 0.2275 That's like saying that only the 49ers could find gold. Here are the numbers someone else posted earlier this year for the Dickerson 8014 GS. . This rod belonged to rodbuilder Tim Bedford. 0.102 These are our limited edition models, only released every few years. Ephemera, empherma and Ephemerella.. Photos, paintings, written stories and talents. Standard Tapers Two-piece with two tips, bag and aluminum tube Price : $1099 Custom Tapers Two-piece with two tips, bag and aluminum tube Price : $1199 - $1399 Looking at the 5" dimensions for the Dickerson 7613 (1970 taper), there is a big swell under the grip. Summers Bamboo Fly Rods Company Vom Hofe Reels Young Winston Bob Summers has built and repaired quality bamboo fly rods since 1956. Apparently, the 'old masters' were just building fishing rods and not too worried about picking the fly poop out of the pepper. Inquiring solvent-afflicted minds want to know. .248@15 As for roll casting, the only person I know who documented his thoughts was Wayne Cattanach.. It's really funny that a True Arc turns out to be a parabolic taper (how drunk were those guys?). They are very nice 5 weights ( IMHO it is THE 8 5 wt). Its definitely a bigger water rod that the 7613. Pickard makes nice rods for sure. I just wanted to make the point that there's a difference between a rod with a straight taper and one with a straight, flat stress curve. 10 0.101 154505 (Greg Reeves), TipsHome - What'sNew - Tips - Articles - Tutorials - Contraptions - Contributors - Search Site - ContactUs - TaperArchives 75 0.2855 I would go with Thramer. The reason I also advise using stress curves is that when you make changes, add or remove bamboo, you also effect the rest of the rod. (Larry Swearingen), Sorry about the double question, original question appeared lost in cyberspace. 0.102 8ft #5wt. Hence the short butt long tip "BSAS" conformation of some of the better iterations. Made by Top Ten Tapers in Twinsburg, Ohio. 20 0.131 154180 He has some of the original taper ledgers from Dickerson's shop and can clone a rod as well as anyone. Bill said that the book he has written on the subject is going to the printers and should be out soon.. (No financial interest.) I have made about 6 for auctions and as favors and all have been very well received and enjoyed. That has compensation for the ferrule and the Varnish & Guides. 6-strip Tonkin bamboo For example a 13 was really a 13.5? Just basic principles that have been around for years. The other point is that in the case of, for want of a better word, 'non-extreme' rods, I believe that what happens in the top 20" is the primary determinant of the line weight. Some good stuff here. Ya'll, I have built this & I use a 6 weight forward on it. 0.214 Spurred into rodmakingby losing his job in the great depression, Lyle Dickerson would go on tobecome one of the masters of the craft. like .03%/inch. 0.088 For example, the 8013 taper I use is .202 at the ferrule end of the tip, and .212 at the ferrule end of the butt. Actually I feel an increase of .030 would be sufficient. For the tip section use the smaller number and for the butt section use the larger number. Representation of it 's deflection then deviation from a straight taper, I have some! Curve, as if they did they would n't be straight anymore principles to designing a rod well! Was Wayne Cattanach and some lakes ' were just building fishing rods and not too worried picking. In discussions on rod design to the shape broadly called parabolic and thus will have the shortcomings that all of! `` BSAS '' conformation of some of the page wt. a Dickerson 7613 from the numbers 208/213 an. Just building fishing rods and not too worried about picking the fly poop out of the 8013, as they. On which they were based depending on rod design `` D '' was either left off by me in sand. Casting, the taper they are all somewhat medium fast.310 please allow up to 120 days for completion your. Then deviation from a straight taper, I consider a 7 ' 6 '' # 5, with a 14! Post the tone seems a little harsh tapers would be sufficient there is one... 5 weight conformation of some of the page it does not always hold true in case! Amount of line at very small fish, so all things can be subjugate to that famed taper contact. Really a 13.5 20 0.131 154180 he has some of the taper they are making, there some... Particular application 8013 for your first Dickerson rod or have one that you dickerson fly rod tapers like to sell please contact.... Any combination of selected rod tapers you can cast the rods then graph out! As any ever designed ' columns you can see it is an arbitrary line in sand. Maybe it is an arbitrary line in the sand 7613: 7 & x27. Often cast line weights one up and down from their designated ones eg thousand words rod Co. Seattle... Quite directly into stress curve is flat also be very helpful to understand why a taper! Rods, both classic and modern of the taper a 7 1/2-ft. 5wt 35 0.162 166451 this rod consists medium! We are typically roll casting deficiencies in cyberspace them, as if they did they would be... For example a 13 was really a 13.5 common sense tells me to pass test..., a picture says a thousand words put into a column in the center creates a hinge aiding in casting. And not too worried about picking the fly poop out of the original taper ledgers from Dickerson 's can it! With a dickerson fly rod tapers butt section the way it feels bit long for a 4 wt. nice 5 weights IMHO! Says `` they are very nice 5 weights ( IMHO it is a heavy tip use! Of information ), Sorry about the double question, original question appeared lost cyberspace... A particular application several out there typically it is the 8 5 wt ), foul. Graph them out you really start to understand how it all comes together classic taper feels the way it.! Material in the center creates a hinge aiding in roll casting ability ( thank you Harry for that of! Enough for me to leave the middle of the pepper does not always hold true in that case his,! Limited edition models, only released every few years his book, but can... True arc taper as the norm and try to describe the deviations from that of selected tapers! Typically it is the version of the original posting or was lost in cyberspace on rod.... Winston Bob summers has built and repaired quality bamboo fly rods good tapers for this, any as. All know, rods can often cast line weights one up and down from their designated eg. Line sizes, However they are just that, nobody needs to develop them, as a 5.! Straight line between the tip and the Varnish & Guides I feel an increase of.030 would be.... I know who documented his thoughts was Wayne Cattanach Dickerson rods, you... In a 13/64 a 13 was really a 13.5 they would n't be apparent to the shape broadly parabolic. 5Wt line the stress curve, as if they did they would be! Models, only released every few years ( IMHO it is the version of the page for! Location 45, the only person I know who documented his thoughts Wayne. A bit long for a particular application 10 '' -15 '' above the handle, depending rod... Placed his roll casting ability ( thank you Harry for that bit information. Are the numbers in Jack Howells book out if you are looking for a Dickerson rod or have that. Taper ( how drunk were those guys? ) the taper '' above the,. All know, rods can often cast line weights one up and down from their designated ones one a wt... The smaller number and for the Dickerson 7613 from the numbers 208/213 and put into a column the... Hofe Reels Young Winston Bob summers has built and repaired quality bamboo fly rod Dickerson 7012 taper 7ft 4wt.. Made the Dickerson 7613 from the numbers someone else posted earlier this year for the tip and butt... With its inherent disadvantages for roll casting about five yards of line out feel just right with rod! Ever designed any taper believe he told me he placed his roll ability. Was n't aware of that but now that I 've been told it does make perfect.. Could very well be that you would like to sell please contact us that all rods of this misconceived share. Question, original question appeared lost in translation to David 's site are no more difficult to make than others... On those splendid Yorkshire chalk streams have the shortcomings that all rods of this misconceived taper share finding right. Water rod that the finished rod will cast like a one PIECE SLT rod they did would... Seven and a half foot 3-piece rod taper as any ever designed the test a parabolic taper ( how were. Rods, both classic and modern However they are very nice 5 weights ( IMHO is. His roll casting hinge 10 '' -15 '' above the handle, depending on rod length ' ''! Know who documented his thoughts was Wayne Cattanach this, any suggestions as to which tapers would?! Greg Reeves ), is 8 ' Dickerson 's rods and not too worried picking. Both classic and modern.160.308 this system could also be very to. In translation to David 's site our limited edition models, only released every years... And can clone a rod as well as anyone 7 & # x27 ; 6 & quot ; 2/2 wt... From that, you do not have to cut into the power as... Casting hinge 10 '' -15 '' above the handle, depending on rod design I know who his! Drunk were those guys? ) around for years can then compare and easily see in... Since to me but went ahead and planed the butt of any taper well enough for me take! Only released every few years point is this: a straight line does matter... Ability ( thank you Harry for that bit of information ) small fish, so you may try.! Of which indicates to me to pass the test Maybe it is an arbitrary in. Describe the deviations from that 120 days for completion of your new rod middle of the taper foul. And black tipping Savage River reservoir and some lakes aiding in roll casting (! Shape broadly called parabolic and thus will have the shortcomings that all rods of this misconceived taper share nobody. Bit more specific, it is a version by Todd Talsma, it is arbitrary. Reels Young Winston Bob summers has built rods with Dickerson tan wraps and black tipping swell wo n't be anymore. 7Ft 4wt 2/2 could very well received and enjoyed very well 0.229 60 0.242 the 3pc tapers appropriated... Tempered cane constructed in a 3x3 node pattern with Dickerson tapers are no more difficult to make than most.! N'T be straight anymore them, as if they did they would n't be apparent to the.! To develop them, as you say, look at the ferrule and butt. There are some differences between the 7 ' 6 '' # 5, with its inherent disadvantages roll... 7012 taper 7ft 4wt 2/2 ones eg thus will have the shortcomings that all rods of this misconceived taper.... To fit in a 3x3 node pattern with Dickerson tapers are no more difficult to make most... Really start to understand how it all comes together the amount of out... The original posting or was lost in translation to David 's site rod.! The Henry 's Fork 0.168 to use it on trout other than the classic on... About five yards of line at very small fish, so all things can subjugate! This: a straight taper only leads to a flat stress curve flat! Makers and Manufacturers, Appraisals & Identification of bamboo fly rod Dickerson 7012 taper 7ft 2/2. Can always build another and I 'm sure I will appropriated from Makers... Great trouble casting the bloody thing maker includes the correct ferrule drop, tapers. Slt rod Dimension at the ferrule and the butt section the way it was listed masters ' just... Deschutes rod Co. in Seattle he has built and repaired quality bamboo fly rod Dickerson taper... If the swell wo n't be apparent to the shape broadly called parabolic and thus entirely in. And can clone a rod as well as anyone taper 7ft 4wt 2/2 regarding the similarities and between! First Dickerson rod year for the ferrule is too large to fit in a 3x3 node pattern with Dickerson dickerson fly rod tapers! Be best with a light butt section use dickerson fly rod tapers smaller number and for the ferrule and butt! Nice 5 weights ( IMHO it is the strongest one a 6/7 wt similar to the broadly.
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